This is a hand from a casino, 4/8 and the players (9 of them) are generally bad. BB is avg player and MP is a loose caller. What would you do after the flop and turn?

I am at the button with A :hearts: 10 :clubs:

I raised at the button. BB called and MP called.

Flop:

10 :hearts: J :spades: 3 :diamonds:

Checked all around.

Turn:

6 :clubs:

Checked all around again

River:

8 :hearts:

Checked to the BB. BB bet, MP called and I called.

I really can't understand why you didn't bet the flop or turn.

Everyone folds to you in button except one MP, which you've qualified as a loose caller. With only the blinds behind me, if they're bad players, I know that they're not that likely to fold to a raise (I've seen players call with 72os from the blind), so you're just building the pot preflop with a hand that's not really strong enough to warrant that.

Now the flop comes out, you hit second pair with top kicker. BB checks, MP checks. I've immediately narrowed the range of hands. I don't give either credit for the J, unless they just really don't like their kicker. Neither player raised/reraised preflop, so I don't give either credit for top set, and probably not second set. Possibly bottom set, but in my experience, in Limit, bottom set gets bet more often than not. Any two pair is possible, though I'd be surprised if MP has J3 or T3, not as surprised to see BB with one of these holdings, and either could have JT.

But that's not really that narrow of a range, is it? Action is on me, and I've already gone through all of that in my head, but I'm sitting here, trying to decide whether to check or bet. What does checking do for me? What does betting do for me? Well, checking gives everyone a free card, but the only free card you can like is another J or T. If you've already ruled out the possibility of them holding a J (unless it's two pair), then a J is pretty harmless. If a T falls, even if they have second pair, you've got them outkicked. Any other card that comes off (even an A, giving you two pair) puts a straight draw out there, and a turn bet is definitely getting called.

So, I'd decide to bet. Especially, this being the flop, so it's only $4. Some of the time you're going to buy the pot, sometimes you'll get called. However, if you didn't raise preflop, there's half as much money in the pot, so a bet gives your opponent half as good odds. Yeah, they're not thinking about this, but from a theoretical point of view, you want to be giving your opponents as worse odds possible.

Betting does two things here. I knocks out some players, and if gives me a lot more information about other players. A player who smooth calls a position bet on this flop is saying one of a number of things about himself:
"You're in position, and I don't believe you, so I'm calling with overcards, because I think if they pair, I'm good." --this is good if they're calling with an Ace and that hits
"I've got 2nd pair."
"I've got a monster, and I'm waiting to check-raise you on 4th street."
or "I've got a draw."

Possibly draws on this flop? AQ, KQ, Q9, 98, 97, 87. I don't put MP on AQ or KQ, because he probably raises with those preflop. Unless he's really loose, I don't think I necessarily put MP on 97. I wouldn't be surprised to see BB in there with any of those holdings. You say BB is average player though, so depending on how good you consider "average," I think BB should be leading out with KQ, Q9, and 98 here.

Anyway, now comes the turn. It's a 6. It was checked around on the flop, so the suited connectors that you didn't bet off just improved. 45 which definitely folds to a bet on the flop just turned open ended. 67 and 56 just paired up and probably poorly decide to call a bet on the turn.

Now the river, and it's an 8. It's been checked all the way around and now, on the river, the BB leads out. Well, Q9 and 97 just made their straight. And not only that, but you can't tell where in there someone might've made 2 pair.

And now MP calls. Action is on you. You have 2nd pair, there's $42 (minus rake) in the pot, and it's $8 for you to call. You're not buying $8 worth of information when you make this call, and while you were probably ahead on the flop, there's not much you beat by the time you get to the river. I don't think making the overcall here is the right play. Just make sure you get to see both players cards.

Again, IN POSITION, I probably bet this flop and turn. If I'm out of position, I'm might bet the flop anyway, but I'm going to try checking down after that, and I might call the bet on the flop if the person in last position is betting and I suspect it's merely a position bet to try buying the pot.

And the BB may very simply be trying to buy the pot. But you should've bought the pot on the flop or turn. Once you miss those opportunities, and now someone's leading out with 2 players behind him, I'm probably folding with just 2nd pair.

Ya don't understand the check's??

No I don't.

No I don't.
Should be Ya, I don't understand the checks either. LOL

Go All in! j/k

Bet flop, Bet turn and if they still don't go away check river.

I always C-bet this board if I raised with the button PF. And you got a piece of it, most def good enough for a C-bet.

Sorry, what's C-bet?


EDIT: Err, nevermind. Continuation bet, right?

Sorry, what's C-bet?


EDIT: Err, nevermind. Continuation bet, right?

Think he means check bet.

Think he means check bet.
What's a check-bet?
...

You can't check and bet on the same betting round. And when you're last to act, you certainly can't check-raise...

C-bet is a continuation bet, meaning you raise pre-flop and "continue" to bet.

10 - if you're not c-betting these type of hands, I really think this a serious leak. The c-bet is fairly easy IMO. Is this standard for you?

Thanks guys. I had serious doubts about the way I played this hand (actually no clue of what I was doing) after re-think after re-think. That's why I decided to post it. In the previous two hands, My TPTK was beaten by inferior hands + bad calls after the flop. That's why instinct told me to check on the flop. I actually won this hand, the BB had AQ and the the MP player never showed. I know it doesn't made it a good play. To answer your question, c-bet is not automatic for me, but I say majority of the time.

The only reason at the moment is that both players will likely called if I bet the flop and I have ABSOLUTELY no idea of what they have. The MP is a player who called down 89 with AK4 flop before. Any of them could have J2 or something like that, that's why I decided to check all the way to the river, and called with no KQ on board.




10 - if you're not c-betting these type of hands, I really think this a serious leak. The c-bet is fairly easy IMO. Is this standard for you?